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Sticky:[Kronos] Deep Space Transport Rebalance

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 10 post(s)
Dave Stark 5656	Posted - 2014.05.17 16:53:00 - [1] - Quote i like the changes, they're good. however have you considered the fact that since these have a FLEET hangar, and can fit tractor beams, there's now even less reason to bring an orca and/or a rorqual on grid? if you want those two ships on grid, these changes are like a nail in the coffin to achieving that end. especially in the more dangerous areas of space. aside from that minor and somewhat irrelevant point. these changes look solid and have a nice twist.
Dave Stark 5671	Posted - 2014.05.17 18:52:00 - [2] - Quote Bienator II wrote: for a moment i thought you could transport fitted frigs with it but someone told me you would need a different bay for it. So its still not the non-capaital transport ship i was looking for :( you can fit assembled ships in a fleet hangar. i used to put assembled probes in my orca's fleet hangar because you couldn't scan the modules in the cargo/fitted to them. let me move my deadspace modules around for my incursion ships. also, fleet hangars don't have the restriction of only being able to hold charges in the cargo.
Dave Stark 5672	Posted - 2014.05.17 19:00:00 - [3] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: mm scram DO prevent warp.. what are you smoking? the +2 warp strength role bonus. at a guess.
Dave Stark 5915	Posted - 2014.05.20 15:11:00 - [4] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: I've tweaked the assembled volume up a bit further, so they are all above 500k and no more than one can be fit in the SMA of a carrier or rorqual. and now none of them fit in an orca.
Dave Stark 5917	Posted - 2014.05.20 15:40:00 - [5] - Quote Ammzi wrote: Dave Stark wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: I've tweaked the assembled volume up a bit further, so they are all above 500k and no more than one can be fit in the SMA of a carrier or rorqual. and now none of them fit in an orca. Good. That would have been a free 50k m3 unscannable cargo bay to the orca. but that's fine in other ships? the orca can already do the whole "unscannable cargo bay" thing anyway; you just use exploration frigates. not to mention, one of the DST's few uses will be for mining as a way of not having to put your orca on grid while retaining the "mobile secure jetcan with tractor beams" thing. so it would be nice, that a ship used in a mining operation would fit in my industrial command ship.
Dave Stark 5922	Posted - 2014.05.20 15:59:00 - [6] - Quote Ammzi wrote: Dave Stark wrote: Ammzi wrote: Dave Stark wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: I've tweaked the assembled volume up a bit further, so they are all above 500k and no more than one can be fit in the SMA of a carrier or rorqual. and now none of them fit in an orca. Good. That would have been a free 50k m3 unscannable cargo bay to the orca. but that's fine in other ships? the orca can already do the whole "unscannable cargo bay" thing anyway; you just use exploration frigates. not to mention, one of the DST's few uses will be for mining as a way of not having to put your orca on grid while retaining the "mobile secure jetcan with tractor beams" thing. so it would be nice, that a ship used in a mining operation would fit in my industrial command ship. At least it wouldn't 50.000 m3. Regardless making them over 500.000 ensures you can't get more than 1 in a capital which is the keypoint. There are other ways to get hidden cargo, but that won't be fixed for ages to come. No reason to add more. then reduce the capacity of capitals, rather than slapping orca pilots in the face. one of the few worth while uses a DST will have, just took a hit to the viability when you can't use your orca to transport it to your next mining spot.
Dave Stark 5927	Posted - 2014.05.20 16:48:00 - [7] - Quote Ammzi wrote: Dave Stark wrote: then reduce the capacity of capitals, rather than slapping orca pilots in the face. Fozzie is right here in this thread. Go ahead and argue for your case. Good luck, you'll need it. i honestly don't care one way or another what happens. having DSTs being useful for mining [which is a waste of time as it is] doesn't really matter much, although it was about the only use i could come up with for these ships since there ships superior to the DST in every way already available.
Dave Stark 5929	Posted - 2014.05.20 17:09:00 - [8] - Quote Ammzi wrote: Dave Stark wrote: Ammzi wrote: Dave Stark wrote: then reduce the capacity of capitals, rather than slapping orca pilots in the face. Fozzie is right here in this thread. Go ahead and argue for your case. Good luck, you'll need it. i honestly don't care one way or another what happens. having DSTs being useful for mining [which is a waste of time as it is] doesn't really matter much, although it was about the only use i could come up with for these ships since there ships superior to the DST in every way already available. With the ability to put these in your carrier, DST will be the most used subcap hauler in the game. Period. Blockade runners, t1 haulers and similar will not have remotely close to the same amount of usage if Kronos goes live with the ability to put DSTs in your carrier SMA. It will literally be every 0.0 carrier pilot's must-have. So you don't have to wonder about their uses, it will be (ab)used. It's just a very bastarded way to use it, which is a shame. But besides this, it will be a great substitution for rorquals and similar when putting up towers. You can carry fuel, stront, tower and some useful hangars all in one go. so basically it's going to be a 140m container, rather than an actual ship. does the fact that it's near only use is a giant shoe box mean it's a successful rebalance? or an unsuccessful one?
Dave Stark 5936	Posted - 2014.05.20 18:30:00 - [9] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: It is also going to be great hot drop bait and a very good highsec armored car hauler. I think it will also be handy for some 0.0 uses. I am certainly glad I have Transport Ships IV on several characters. My next issue is figuring out which racial Industrial V I want as my standard across my accounts, since I currently have that split (e.g. One has Gallente Industrial V, another Caldari, another Minmatar, etc.). the problem is there are better ships for both high sec armoured car hauling, and for going through hostile space. shrug
Dave Stark 5940	Posted - 2014.05.20 20:25:00 - [10] - Quote Ammzi wrote: Sigh, wrong picture. Here's the right one http://puu.sh/8UdTt/e9376a3c47.jpg guess that means we can change DSTs back to a sensible size so we can put them in the orca after all. edit: it helps if i get my short hand right.

Dave Stark 5942	Posted - 2014.05.20 20:39:00 - [11] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Would you even need the skill to fly the DST in order to use it in that manner? i have an assembled and rigged bustard on this character. i just passed it to my alt who can not fly a bustard, and i was still able to fill the fleet hangar with junk. picture for some reason. that error popped up because i tried to board it, to demonstrate that i can't actually fly the bustard.
Dave Stark 5943	Posted - 2014.05.20 20:58:00 - [12] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: If you put the DST into the carrier's SMA, can you still access its fleet hangar? no, there's no option to "expand" the ship maintenance bay like there is when you put containers in a fleet hangar as seen here also, the DST hasn't been given it's new size so we can put it in an orca, which means there are probably other changes that haven't happened and why we're seeing sisi contradict fozzie.
Dave Stark 5953	Posted - 2014.05.21 07:32:00 - [13] - Quote Mara Rinn wrote: So Fozzie, can you please put the size back to the point where you can put a DST in the SMB of the Orca? last night when i was testing; you could still fit a DST in an orca. seems SISI isn't up to date with all of the changes.
Dave Stark 5954	Posted - 2014.05.21 11:18:00 - [14] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: So there had been a problem that had prevented use of the "ammo only" check for fleet hangars years ago, but it turns out one of our programmers fixed it in 2012 as part of another change and forgot to tell people. So although it's appropriate for the DSTs to be fairly large, we're bringing them back to the ~400k size since we don't need to worry about balance issues around carrier or rorqual cargo capacity. a bustard is 290k. any reason why you're adding another ~100k to it, since you don't need to worry about balance issues? (did you accidentally hit 4 not 3?)
Dave Stark 5954	Posted - 2014.05.21 11:47:00 - [15] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: And the numbers in the OP are currently correct. so why do DSTs now take up an extra 100k m3? actually, never mind, i just clocked it. looks at hoarder
Dave Stark 5967	Posted - 2014.05.22 06:56:00 - [16] - Quote Mara Rinn wrote: Syri Taneka wrote: Except for the fact an Orca can move ~92k m^3 of cargo with a 200k EHP buffer tank AND also carry 400k m^3 of unpacked ships (of any kind). Sure, a DST can do so faster, but it's a short trip where speed actually winds up trumping that kind of capacity. Can you show me a fit where the Orca has 92k m3 of cargo capacity and 200k EHP at the same time? Am I cheating myself of potential bonuses by fitting sub-optimally? cargo rig your orca, then tank it normally. regular cargo + fleet hangar hit ~100k, and your ehp is still over 200k. armour penalties on the orca's ehp are negligible. here
Dave Stark 5967	Posted - 2014.05.22 06:58:00 - [17] - Quote Lexmana wrote: So now that the shoebox is out of the way can we please restore the assembled volume to ~ 300k m3? no, for the same reason that the hoarder is 400k m3.
Dave Stark 5967	Posted - 2014.05.22 07:22:00 - [18] - Quote Lexmana wrote: Dave Stark wrote: Lexmana wrote: So now that the shoebox is out of the way can we please restore the assembled volume to ~ 300k m3? no, for the same reason that the hoarder is 400k m3. Horder always was 400k right? But you used to be able to fit a DST+ cov ops in an Orca. No biggie since BR is the better choice most of the time though and it also allows for a cruiser on top. nope, it was only 400k when it got the specialised ammo hold.